Talk:Tony Abbott

Religious Views

"Abbott says that a politician should not rely on religion to justify a political point of view" This is the only reason he is against gay marriage, any excuses he makes for being against it are only because of his religious views which came first. This contradiction should be stated.

Boat buy back

This should be mentioned, since this great plan to upgrade Indonesian boats with 70M$ tax payers money, is on the adverts and nobody managed to figure out how stupid it is before coming out with this idea.

Labor Party

This section doesnt include important information EG How long he was a Labor member?

Catholic

How can this be, Im sure catholics are not allowed to shack up with women and have premarital sex. Or is it people are what ever they calim to be?

The Honorable

I have a massive problem with the term 'honorable' being attached to his name, surely we can do away with this as it's clearly not appropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.212.100 (talk) 19:17, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

It is appropriate. All people sworn of the Federal Executive Council, which means Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries, are "The Honourable" for life, barring exceptional circumstances. It does not apply to ordinary members and senators, although they are referred to in debates as "the honourable mmember", "my honourable colleague" etc. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 07:15, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Views on Women

I turned to wiki to get an understanding Tony Abbott's reaction to the Julia Gillard 'misogyny speech' and was surprised to see nothing on this topic at all. Tony Abbott's profile internationally is almost entirely down to this incident yet I couldn't even find one line saying, for example, 'On October 16, 2012, Tony Abbott was targeted by Julia Gillard, the then Australian Prime Minister, in a speech attacking misogyny and sexism'. The speech was widely reported around the world <http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-10/international-reaction-to-gillard-speech/4305294>.

When looking at the history of this page, I noticed that a section about Julia Gillard's "sexism and misogyny" speech (directed at Tony Abbott) was removed. As Abbott's views on women and women's rights have been talked about (both positively and negatively) in the media and in politics, should there be a section on this, perhaps in the "Political views" section? The Giant Purple Platypus (talk) 12:37, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

My problem with that section was that it was presented as Abbott's views on women, but was actually a piece about Gillard's views on what she believes are Abbott's views about women. Under the circumstances, Gillard's perception of Abbott's views is interesting, and may be worth covering, but the doesn't equate to an account of what Abbott believes. So I'm not really comfortable with presenting Gillard's perceptions of Abbott in a political views section, as we don't know how they relate to Abbott's actual views, if that makes sense. It might fit better into a section on how Abbott is perceived by the community, but such a section risks being a bit of a BLP nightmare. :) - Bilby (talk) 03:19, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Indeed - for obvious reasons, we can't present Gillard's views on Abbott as being factual (and vice-versa). In regards to public perception of Abbott, there has been some polling of how the public view his attitudes towards women recently, as well as some commentary from various academics which could be usable. However, turning this into a section of the article would be pretty tricky. It seems better to attempt to properly describe Abbott's various actions and statements and let readers reach their own views, but that's easier said than done! Nick-D (talk) 03:45, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

The section I reverted was all about Julia Gillard's attack on Tony Abbot. It was quite unbalanced and was entirely Gillard material. We learnt nothing about Abbot's views on women. I actually think Abbot has a case to answer on this, but we should use his own statements and actions to illustrate his views, not Gillard's understandably partisan opinions. --Pete (talk) 04:20, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Agree with Pete (partially) - I'm in two minds about the creation of such a section, as I can see it being a partisan-magnet and pretty much ending up sounding something like "Labor said this, Liberal said that". If there are no actual policy positions being detailed (such as abortion or paid maternity leave, which I believe are already covered), I think it should stay out.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 08:42, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Note that I've posted a report concerning Alans1977's edit warring at WP:AN3. Nick-D (talk) 08:13, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Please resists from your constant acts of vandalism. The material I've added is referenced and notable. Alans1977 (talk) 08:19, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

I've reverted your edit as there is clearly no consensus for this addition. --Nug (talk) 10:45, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

It seems to me that previously here about this subject has been against the inclusion of the Gillard speech as this has been Gillard's view of Abbott's view on women's place in society and not words out of his own mouth. I'm presuming then that the addition of 'Tony Abbott has, while he was a much younger man, previously written "I think it would be folly to expect that women will ever dominate or even approach equal representation in a large number of areas simply because their aptitudes, abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons".[118] When asked about this statement, later on in life, Abbott refused to say that those were no longer his views.[119] Abbott has also previously said that "I think there does need to be give and take on both sides, and this idea that sex is kind of a woman’s right to absolutely withhold, just as the idea that sex is a man’s right to demand I think they are both… they both need to be moderated, so to speak"', will be fairly non controversial, being that these are words out of Abbott's own mouth which are indicative of his views on women's place in society. Alans1977 (talk) 07:52, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Whenever I see a lot of new material in an established article on a political figure and nothing much has been happening recently, I can be sure that it's a whole biased segment, either an attack piece or a praise job. Some zealot is out to rewrite history and doesn't think anyone will notice, least of all the established editing crew who have generally talked about the topic at length, thrashing out some good balanced text. May I suggest that it will be easier for everybody including yourself if you discuss your edits first? Otherwise you'll just raise a bunch of hackles, you'll be constantly reverted and it will take years for people to trust you. --Pete (talk) 08:09, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Quoting Tony Abbott's own words and presenting them in a non-emotional manner displays bias? And please explain to me how a transcript from a television interview with Tony Abott is a poor source. Alans1977 (talk) 10:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

And Tony Abbott's views on women's place in society are not an important aspect of his political views? I think that 50% + of the population would disagree with you heavily. Alans1977 (talk) 10:28, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Did you actually mean "I actually think Abbot has a case to answer on this, but we should use his own statements and actions to illustrate his views", when you wrote it? Alans1977 (talk) 10:31, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Alans, the problem as I see it is twofold. First, the section is presented in a very biased way. The very title "Women's place in society" strikes me as evoking a "women should stay in their place" attitude. A neutral term like "Feminism" or even "Gender politics" would be more appropriate. Second, and more importantly, no policy positions are presented. It is just a pair of quotes from Abbott in his student days. No context. The section presents numerous opportunities for exploring this. You could mention his opposition to gender quotas, his support for paid maternity leave and the baby bonus, the criticism he has received for his supposed problem with women and his response to that criticism, his general antipathy toward gender politics (that might be the place to put some of the more widely reported quotes from his days on SUU council). Just plopping some ancient quotes in the article is not very useful for the encyclopaedia, IMHO. --Yeti Hunter (talk) 11:06, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Without, of course, making it too long and therefore giving the topic undue weight in what is a biography, which must summarise the subject's whole life. --Pete (talk) 17:13, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

LOL at Yeti Hunter for suggesting that "Feminism" is a neutral term. I am cautious about using any quote from 30 something years earlier in someone's life to give any indication or implication of what that person's view might be today. My views on many things have changed dramatically over time. HiLo48 (talk) 20:04, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, more neutral, at least :) -Yeti Hunter (talk) 23:52, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

I personally see nothing to be cautious about as far as using 30 year old quotes goes, especially when much later in life the person quoted is given a chance to comment on/clarify/take back those views and they refuse. Alans1977 (talk) 09:05, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Like I said, there might be a case for a short, neutral inclusion of some of the material you have mentioned previously. But it will have to be done in a different way than before, and discussed here on the talk page first, otherwise you will probably just end up getting reverted again. --Yeti Hunter (talk) 01:01, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

I feel some reference to Abbott's statements on women and that he has been criticised for them is warranted. Before I work something up does anyone have an objection? FlatOut 00:30, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Given the nature of this debate it'd probably be prudent to discuss any proposed changes on the Talk page first, once you have a draft. --Yeti Hunter (talk) 00:41, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Typo

multiculturalism is spelled incorrectly under the "Post Howard Government: shadow minister" section.

Rudd is spelled incorrectly under "Election 2010" section.

Thanks. They're fixed now. HiLo48 (talk) 03:21, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Gay marriage

According to the ABC news, Tony holds this position despite his sister being gay... Quote:

Both Ms Gillard and Mr Rudd repeated Labor's call for Opposition Leader Tony Abbott to allow a conscience vote for Coalition MPs.

However, Mr Abbott, whose sister is gay, says his position has not changed.

"I respect Kevin Rudd, I accept that he's entitled to change his mind. I certainly haven't changed my mind," he said.

"We took a particular policy into the last election. The policy that we took into the last election is that we support the existing Marriage Act.

"My party room was strongly of the view that we were not going to say one thing before an election and do the opposite after an election." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.210.161.88 (talk) 22:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Fitness and exercise regime of Tony Abbott

I think it is important to include a section on how Tony Abbott keeps fit, has taken part in trilatilons, 19 day cycle rides, etc. IMO this is a core part of his belief system and would be difficult for him to keep up given the grueling routine of a politician. Note for people who now a little about Australian politicians I do not support Tony Abbott's party (liberal) but vote green. I think this information should be added as it is so notable for a politician to be fit. User: johnscotaus — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnscotaus (talk • contribs) 11:01, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't think there will be any objection to that, provided you apply WP:UNDUE. --Yeti Hunter (talk) 12:12, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

And find some decent sources. HiLo48 (talk) 23:20, 9 June 2013 (UTC)